From sketch to shelf in pharma and healthcare

Nathan Anibaba: 

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Nathan Anibaba: 

Richard Quelch is the global head of marketing for Origin Pharma. His expertise is in growing businesses by inspiring the employees, educating customers, and creating and executing highly effective global marketing strategies. His greatest strength is in brand development to understand and manage the integration of marketing and sales teams to deliver campaigns to maximize budget return. Richard Quelch, welcome to ClientSide. 

Richard Quelch: 

Thank you for having me. 

Nathan Anibaba: 

You studied media studies at college. It seems as though you always had your sights set on entering a career in the media and marketing world. 

Richard Quelch: 

Yeah. Interestingly, when I went through from year 11 into year 12 into the [inaudible 00:01:12] college years, the two years I was at that college, I actually entered into media studies. Now, at the time, it was seen as a bit of a Mickey Mouse subject matter, but my passion for campaigns, and marketing, and advertising was always there from probably year 7/year 8 in secondary school, and I wanted to pursue it. So I actually, yeah, I went into media studies, and believe it or not, I got an A within it. 

Nathan Anibaba: 

Wow. 

Richard Quelch: 

Particularly around a campaign that I did for FUBU, which actually was a clothing brand, and it originated from the rap and hip hop industry. And looking at me, you probably would never have associated with the rap and hip hop industry itself. But I just loved fashion and I loved the fact that fashion and music came together and it produced this clothing brand. And I really, really enjoyed developing that coursework within media studies. So, yeah, that kind of set me on the path to the advertising world. 

Nathan Anibaba: 

Really interesting. You worked in recruitment in 2008 at Pareto Law. That’s a really hard-nosed sales environment, the recruitment environment. What did you learn from there that you later used in other parts of your career? 

Richard Quelch: 

An interesting couple of years with Pareto because it is that boiler room environment but thoroughly enjoyed it at the same time. Don’t get me wrong, it was really tough, but what really, really got me as a developing commercial guy with a bit of gravitas and a bit of business acumen, it taught me how to hold myself, to speak to big CEOs and directors of big commercial businesses that required a service or a product. And at this time was basically young, hungry graduate going in as a sales person into these… a large company and sometimes small businesses that needed a bit of a rocket. And I learnt a lot. And I learnt a lot through how to deal and negotiate but also how to market as well because we were marking a human being, and that human being USP was a young, hungry salesperson who doesn’t want to be on a large salary, is hungry to get that on-target earnings for the year, and really understanding how a commercial entity worked and what they actually required, which obviously then stood me in good stead. 

Nathan Anibaba: 

Really interesting. 

Richard Quelch: 

[inaudible 00:03:42]. Yeah. 

Nathan Anibaba: 

Fast forward a few years and you become the global head of marketing at Origin Pharma. Tell us what problems you solved for your customers. 

Richard Quelch: 

Well, simply put, we solved the packaging problem in house. We’re a primary packaging company, and we basically can deliver the full… And again, classic cliché term, which I kind of despise at the same time, which is ironic in what I’m saying. But is a full commercial… concept commercial model. So they can come to us when they need a piece of packaging developing for a specific medicine, and we can take that from the drawing board, and take that right through to manufacturing the physical product, and delivering it to their filling site across the world. We’re creating that all-under-one-roof solution because it’s synonymous in the healthcare and pharma industry that it’s very traditional. 

Richard Quelch: 

They go to the big packaging manufacturers who just do one piece of packaging and they’re not very dynamic. A slow-turning lorry, what I would call the pharma industry because they’re used to their traditions. But pharma as an industry needs to develop and needs to become a lot more dynamic in its thinking, in its sourcing. So Origin have created the HP3 model, the Hybrid Pharma Packaging Model, which allows that pharma company to come to us and actually access and design packaging in record speed, which has never been seen before in the pharma industry. So we’re actually solving the speed-to-market problem that the pharma industry have. 

Nathan Anibaba: 

Super interesting. And it’s important to say at this point that we’re in the middle of the coronavirus pandemic. I don’t know whether we’re at the middle, or in the beginning, or where we are. It’s week five or six. I’m actually losing count of weeks, actually, but- 

Richard Quelch: 

Yeah, I was going to say it feels like six months into it. 

Nathan Anibaba: 

Exactly. But I would say that… I would probably you say as well that you’re an important part of that supply chain in the pharmaceutical industry seeing as though more and more people now are relying on getting their medicines and their drugs. Talk a little bit about the… how you’re responding to the COVID-19 situation and what role does Origin Pharma play in this important supply chain. 

Richard Quelch: 

Do you know what? I’ll firstly… I’d start off, and I did actually post this on LinkedIn a couple of weeks ago when… well, I said initially when it all started to materialize that it was a bigger problem than we envisaged as a nation and on a global level as well. And I’m proud to be part of a business that is actually supporting the front line within the UK. We’re a UK company, we’re [inaudible 00:06:36] of our roots, we’ve been… Origin has been developed over 55 years, and our job at the moment, which is really nice, is to [inaudible 00:06:45]. And I don’t claim to be a frontline worker. It’s not me. I’m the guy, I’m the marketeer who strategically helps develop business. But our operations guys are the true heroes of Origin because they’re in our warehouses and they’re fulfilling a role to support, I would say, [inaudible 00:07:02] in the pharmacy market in the UK. And as we know that people are accessing medicines [inaudible 00:07:08] day to day now, especially in this sensitive environment. 

Richard Quelch: 

And we’re giving the pharmacy the packaging that they require to be able to help their patients and hospitals across the country. And it’s a really nice feeling to be a part of the fact that we’re a part of that supply chain and ensuring that you and I, the everyday person, are being helped with medicines being delivered and dispatched to us. That’s Origin at the moment. If we’re seeing unprecedented times, I refuse to use that term, but we are, and actually, Origin are supporting that, in a small way, supporting that function, which is a really nice [inaudible 00:07:46]. 

Nathan Anibaba: 

Yeah, it must feel really good to be part of the effort to actually help the situation, whereas many businesses and many people just have to sit by while a lot of the other people put their lives on the line, literally. 

Richard Quelch: 

Absolutely. 

Nathan Anibaba: 

Really interesting to hear that. So what would you say are the biggest, biggest business issues that the company faces now, both from a operational and strategic standpoint? And how are you overcoming them? 

Richard Quelch: 

It’s an interesting question there. The biggest issues at the moment for a company like ours, like Origin is… I take it both ways. We’ve got a sister brand called Lifestyle Packaging, which we launched at the early… late 2018/beginning of 2019. And that essentially is appeasing other markets, from personal perfumes, fragrances, CBD, nutraceuticals, et cetera. And then there’s Origin. Now the problem that Origin’s got at the moment is, “Where do we go next in a positive light?” Because we’re growing as a business. We had a five-year plan in 2015 when I initially joined, and we had a plan to get to a [inaudible 00:09:11] 2020. And we’re achieving it. We’ll probably go through it as well by the end of this year. And now the problem we’ve got as a business is, “What do we do next to create that new level of business or a new proposition?” And that’s the problem we’ve got. 

Richard Quelch: 

And then there’s Lifestyle, which is embryonic in its brand development [inaudible 00:09:32], but that’s been hit quite hard in terms of where those multiple of industries were, from perfume through to CBD through to those kind of Lifestyle businesses around looking after yourself have taken a back seat. People are trying to recover at this moment in time. And we have reflected our robust supply chain from Origin, and we’ve reflected that into the back end of Lifestyle so our customers from Lifestyle can get the benefit of the 55 years worth of experience that we’ve got in supply and design and bring that into Lifestyle so people won’t have a problem of trying to find the bottle or design a bottle and get it manufactured because Lifestyle has that capability. Whereas other companies will potentially source from other areas of the world, which are having problems getting out of the country for obvious reasons. And that’s the problems and the challenges that Lifestyle face with their customers. But we feel as though we’ve got the supply chain and the model to support that. 

Richard Quelch: 

I think I’m kind of flipping in between the two, with the two halves, but with Origin, it’s, “What’s our next investment to be able to improve the supply chain within the pharma and healthcare industries when it comes to packaging?” We had that same problem a couple of years ago when it was… there was lack of clean room facilities for packaging to be produced in. So we went on an investment program to the tune of 1.6 million and created a really bespoke clean room facility here in East Yorkshire attached to our head office. The reason why that’s so unique is because it has multiple manufacturing techniques in there, so and honestly, you’d get a cleaner way, it just delivers one manufacturing technique. But what we’re trying to do is create that flexibility for pharma and healthcare industries to come to and say, “Look, we need this product developing and then manufactured. Can you help?” Well, if it’s a… With the bigger manufacturers, they would say it had to be a certain volume. Well, with us, we can support that smaller quantity through to the larger [inaudible 00:11:37]. 

Richard Quelch: 

Supposedly, I suppose going around and a long way answer that, that’s our problem with Origin is, “What can we do to ensure that we’re… not reinventing ourselves, but creating a new arm for the business to keep on growing?” And now we’re about to hit the next five-year plan, which is exciting in itself, and we’re looking to double our turnover from 20 million to 45 million by the end of 2024. So we’re sat here as we were five years ago thinking, “Where are we going double our turnover? I don’t know where we’re going to [inaudible 00:12:13].” But we’ve managed to do it, and we’ve done that through really very strategic investment but also some really nice and very thorough brand development exercises that has got us to where we are and the reputation that we’ve built as an Origin brand. And we’re doing that now with Lifestyle, which is really exciting. 

Nathan Anibaba: 

Super interesting. So from a marketing and communications standpoint, talk about what your main role and responsibility is in this environment, both from the point of view of articulating where Origin goes next, what your next steps are in helping to double turnover over the next few years, and talk about how your agency relationships are helping you solve those challenges. 

Richard Quelch: 

If I quickly take it back to five years ago when I first joined, they had no marketing function, Origin as a company, and they… I’m actually really intrigued by how they developed their business. But they were… they literally made their business through the telephone. They had no other marketing channel, which was unbelievable, really, to the level they were. And they wanted someone to come on board to essentially be their marketing director, and build a little team, so to speak, and strategically start to use marketing as a vehicle to drive new leads into the business. So from now as a quick perspective of it, when I first joined, we had no market share in terms of pharma, no awareness online, and we were producing eight to 10 leads a month through the website and through other channels, mainly through digital side. And if you ask me now, on a bad month five years down the line what we’ve got to is a bad month could be 80 leads, which is- 

Nathan Anibaba: 

Amazing. 

Richard Quelch: 

You can see the growth we’ve delivered, particularly around on the digital side, we’ve really improved our acquisition. And now we’re in that same level of, “What do we do next?” And my job as the head of marketing is to basically give that pathway to the team to how we’re going to achieve and contribute to that next level of revenue, which is obviously doubling from 20 to 40. And it will be along the lines of creating new value propositions that support and will turn on our healthcare and pharma friends and understand that the fact that we can support them in their new product launches through our innovative HP3 model, which is coming to its own now because a lot of people are struggling to gain supply of packaging. 

Richard Quelch: 

And whereas if they came to HP3 and used our model, they will have the ability to turn on different packaging because we have a range of sources [inaudible 00:14:56] tooling sets across Europe. So there’s that availability, which is very much needed in these sensitive times and times where there’s a huge demand for it. So my job is to basically create that five-year plan for our team and then to start to work with partner, and I will say this with our fantastic agencies that we do work with to help us support, not only grow the brand but drive the brand further. And I’m talking Origin, and I’m also talking Lifestyle at the same time. 

Nathan Anibaba: 

So talk a little bit about some of the agencies that you do work with. What areas are they specifically helping you in? And how are they helping you strategically drive and grow the brand? 

Richard Quelch: 

I’ll profess I’d love to say that I am the master of every single marketing skillset that is known to man. But unfortunately, I’m not. And- 

Nathan Anibaba: 

Oh, we need to end the interview here, then. 

Richard Quelch: 

But what I will say is I suppose my skillset is brand development on a commercial slant, and I kind of see myself as a commercial marketeer. So I’m really enthused… I get enthusiastic about developing a brand. But, yes, it’s great to see really nice visuals, turn the customer on by what the product offers. But what I want to see is that sale coming through and showing the value. So that’s my niche is I’m a commercial brand development individual, and I need the expertise from agencies to support me on that journey. So I work with a really cool videography company who helped me bring my ideas to life, the team’s ideas to life around product launches, JJ Media, fantastic company in Hull. But they are really, really flexible. Again, flexible, like our offering, to what we want and require. And they support me in bringing that, I suppose, the product to life in a video format, animation format. 

Richard Quelch: 

And then I work with a design agency who helped me with the visuals, and Phil, creative director there, has been phenomenal. I didn’t set out with Phil five years ago. Phil was an old creative director from my old agency days, the dark side in brackets. But, yeah, I always wanted to reconvene with Phil and finally have got to work with him. And he’s been doing some phenomenal work with me around new product launches and improving the brand of Origin as well and Lifestyle. He helped me launch Lifestyle visually, which is fantastic to get that work, that partnership back with him. And if you look at me as a team for a marketing director, then I’ve got a marketing exec, and then I’ve got Sierra, our manager, and then we have a sample manager, which basically we have a big sample service within the business where if someone requests a sample, we can send it out, which is part of the marketing function. 

Richard Quelch: 

And then I’ve got my three suppliers, my three agencies that all work in tandem but have all got their own expertise. And I basically channel that to be able to deliver and fundamentally deliver that lead to the sales team. And I would call us as a bit of a hybrid marketing team because I don’t envisage us in five years’ time to have a PR manager internally, and I don’t envisage us to have a designer sat at a computer next to me in the office. I just don’t think it’s the right model for us. It could be the right model for any of the other client side businesses, but it works really well because not only are they really good people, but they understand and they get under the skin of Origin and Lifestyle, and they help us develop new ideas and drive further because it’s in their interest. Because if we’re winning in sales and brand awareness and we’re gaining new commercial revenues, they’re only going to benefit because we’re going to increase budget. 

Nathan Anibaba: 

Sure, sure. Super interesting. So from the SEO agencies, we move on to the videographer, and still working with the design agency, and Phil. Is your approach to work with specialist agencies that have key skills in areas that you’re lacking, or is it better for you to… Have you thought about working with one large agency, a full-service agency that has all of those skills in house? What’s your opinion there? 

Richard Quelch: 

It’s another good question, another good question. And it’s one that I’ve battled with since coming to the client side. I did refer to just… as I used to be agency for eight or nine years, and I loved every second of it just because of the sheer pressure that you’re under. But it was a good pressure. And don’t get me wrong, client side, you are, you’re obviously dealing with one brand, but you’ve got more support, service, and products to market. But and since coming back to your question, I’ve battled with the fact that, “Do I bring all those three services together and go to a larger agency that can give me that ability to deliver those channels for me?” 

Richard Quelch: 

And for whatever reason, I’ve had this, I suppose, this notion of if I went to a videographer, that’s all they do and that’s all they deliver as a little company. But if I had that within an agency, I’m not saying this is the case, and I’d like to think I’ve got a lot of decent amount of experience in the agency side, seven times out of 10, they outsource it anyway. So why am I just going directly to the source? I would say a price point, if I’m going to be really, really frank, if I’m paying for a team of 50 rather than a team of four, then obviously my price point is going to be different because I’m not having to pay salaries of account managers upon account managers within that bigger agency. 

Nathan Anibaba: 

Sure. 

Richard Quelch: 

But the positive side, which is the battle that I have, is if I go to a bigger agency, I know that I will be able to be given an all-in-one, consistent delivery of a potential campaign whereas as the moment, admittedly, I’m bringing in three or four different elements from video through to visual through to executing the campaign. I’m actually kind of juggling at the same time, but isn’t a problem because I know that I’m getting expertise from certain areas that I’m bringing together with the marketing team here at Origin and Lifestyle and then we’re executing. 

Richard Quelch: 

But there’s no but about it, we’re growing fast. And actually, resource in terms of human beings here needs to be increased. And actually, it will get to a point where I’ll go to a probably bigger agency and say, “Right. Here’s a product that we’ve got. I need you to help me now develop the campaign, develop the visual, develop a [inaudible 00:22:03] that’s attached to it, and let’s go execute.” And I think we’re getting to that point now, which is interesting. But I don’t think I’d ever come away from that whole, “I’ve got my reliable partners in agencies that are specialists in what they deliver, and I’ll never bring it in house.” 

Nathan Anibaba: 

Super interesting. Let’s talk a little bit about selecting agencies. So let’s say that we… you know that you’re looking for a really hot SEO agency, video production agency, and design agency. What’s the best way for you to actually select, choose, and start working with a new agency? 

Richard Quelch: 

That’s a good question. I kind of got a slight advantage with the kind of experience that I’ve had agency side, and you know how they take. And I’m not saying that every agency’s the same, but they all work off a basic model, which is similar to one another. And when you go in to select agencies, for me, fundamentally is I would look at the people I’m working with from the onset because I understand when you go and meet an agency, you probably meet a director. And I’m not saying this is always the case, but it tends to then be passed to the project team, the account managers, the account director, [inaudible 00:23:20] deliver it. I want to meet those people, the day-to-day running of my account, and that’s important to me is the people. If I get on with them, that’s going to make and create magic when it comes to marketing, when it comes to ideas. And you want to talk to them because you feel as if you speak to them, you’ll create that idea, and that’s the feeling you want from your agency. 

Richard Quelch: 

And to back that up, which hopefully is the be-end and end-all is producing the product at the end of it, i.e. the visual, and the campaign, and the [inaudible 00:23:54] the brand development of it of whatever we’re talking about. They’ve got to have that skillset behind those good people to be able to deliver that final product. So fundamentally it comes down to people, I think, if there’s a good chemistry there, that’s only going to support the by-product, believe it or not, which is the actual development of the design or the launch of the product. 

Nathan Anibaba: 

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Super interesting. From the point of view of how both the agency and the client gets more value from the relationship, how do you think about that? Because one of the concerns that I get from a lot of agencies is that the client doesn’t actually understand how an agency business is run, how it’s structured, how it makes money. And because of that, they put unrealistic expectations onto the agency. One of the advantages that you have is that you’ve worked client side and agency side. How do both parties get increasing value from that client-agency relationship? 

Richard Quelch: 

It’s a good question. For me, it has to be given, all warts and all, of the business for the agency to have a fighting chance of being able to deliver not only value for the client that they have but also to add value to the agency so they understand them and get under the skin of the industry that that client’s in. The only way that you can produce value is being able to literally bring them through the business from actual… from a product being developed through it being sold to a pharma company in Germany is how does that product lifestyle… sorry, product cycle happen? And actually, what is the cost, and what is the profit, and all that kind of good stuff around it? Giving them that understanding and blueprint will give them a fighting chance to understand what the messaging needs to be like within that specific industry but also gives them added value. It’s giving value to the client because what you’re… There are some good agencies out there [inaudible 00:26:06]. And bad agencies won’t do their research. They’ll just rush into it [inaudible 00:26:12]. 

Richard Quelch: 

But actually, what they should be doing is actually entering the physical building of that business and getting a really good understanding of the team, the history of the business, and actually the vision of where the business is going because actually they’re going to have a fundamental contribution to the next foreseeable year, two years of this product launch. And so, there’s got to be transparency. There has to be because otherwise, it’s just not going to work. You’re going to be running along two lines, and it’s not a parallel line. It’s a recipe for disaster. So the idea is being transparent with the agency so they can then understand the team within the client in the client side and actually act as a jigsaw puzzle, as part of the whole jigsaw, and be able to make that fluid so they can not only get on really well but understand and gain value from one another through executing great ideas and then making them come to life. Hopefully that answers the question. 

Nathan Anibaba: 

No, it really does. Last question before we get into our speed round at the end of the interview, Richard. Let’s talk a little bit about briefs because a really good brief really just exponentially increases the agency’s ability to do fantastic work. And the client sets and starts an endpoint and gives the project a solid foundation to really deliver on what the business expects. What’s the best way of actually creating a fantastic brief that an agency can run with and deliver on? 

Richard Quelch: 

So you’ve done this before, you got some good questions. That’s a good… I essentially, because of my ability to understand how agencies work, I do go a bit OTT when it comes to brief development. And the reason being is because some people, I’m not saying this is everybody, but there will be marketing people out there in client side who will go, “Right. We’re going to launch a product. Here’s my budget. I need you guys to come with your expertise and help me launch it. You’ve got creative license.” Which, you know what, there are times when that could happen. But with a brief, it’s I give them the stages, I give them the understanding of why we’re doing this product, I give them blueprint drawings, an understanding of what the product is, and what it means to a market, and who the consumers will be of this product. And then I literally will map it out and warts and all onto the brief to give them a real good understanding of how… which direction this should be going. 

Richard Quelch: 

But I’m not clipping their wings. What I want them to do is see the brief in detail and actually question me. And that’s what I encourage because, again, when it comes to marketing, I’d love to think that I have got the silver bullet for every single campaign launch, for every single product launch that I have. And I haven’t. And I haven’t. But I am damn good at bringing a marketing plan together and executing it, but I need that odd gem of knowledge and execution from an agency to say, “Actually, have you ever thought about doing it this way?” And what’s what I prod. I want people to question that brief. And I’m not always right. And that will encourage them to come back and say, “Right. This is what we think you should be doing.” And if you can give as much information as possible within that brief rather than rushing it, you’re going to have a fighting chance of actually having a successful launch and a positive impact on what you’re trying to do when it comes to marketing a product or a service. 

Nathan Anibaba: 

Super, super fascinating. We’re just getting towards the end of the interview now, Richard, and let’s get into our speed round. So these will be short, sharp questions that I’ll fire at you, and if you can fire some answers back to me, that will be fantastic. I’ll just pick some of these at random. What annoys you about working with agencies, and what do you absolutely love about working with agencies? 

Richard Quelch: 

It’s a good question. What annoys me about agencies sometimes is the price point. Again, I won’t mention any names, but I would say about 12 months ago, I flirted with the idea of working with a bigger agency, and it was for a product launch. And the price point was astronomical. Now, I understand that. I understand that the fact that it’s a high price point because they work with big clients across the world, and they’re good for a reason. And I am a big believer in you pay for what you get. But it is quite frustrating. Maybe that’s a frustrating side of me because we have a sizeable budget, but I’m not going to put all my eggs in one basket because I’ve got other products to launch. We have the ability to work with a bigger agency, but I can’t just dump all my budget on one product because I’ve got other things to deal with. Now that’s probably the frustrating side. 

Richard Quelch: 

And lack of service as well would be one. Just ensure that the customer’s okay. That’s what frustrates me with an agency is it only takes an email or a phone call every week, even if there’s no live project. How are you getting on? Because at the end of the day, inevitably, you’re going to open up the client because they’re going to say, “Well, actually, we’ve got a product launch in three months’ time. We need to start discussing it.” So that service side, it frustrates me a bit and needs to improve from an agency side. But the good bits is they’re just a pure creativeness of agencies, particularly around, and I’m going to be biased here, particularly around Yorkshire. There’s some phenomenal agencies in our area, and I’ve love to work with all of them, to be quite frank, because some of them have done some phenomenal campaign work and some phenomenal technical SEO work as well. But that’s the good side is having that ability… If I could have a Fox Agency, I’m going to be biased here as well- 

Nathan Anibaba: 

Love it. 

Richard Quelch: 

A Fox Agency within my office, I’ll be winning because I’ve got that knowledge, I’ve got expertise, I’ve got that creativeness. And that’s what really fuels my fire is that, “We could do this as a campaign,” and I’d… Admittedly, I don’t have that every day because I don’t have that soundboard. And that’s the good side of agencies is so many skilled, exciting [inaudible 00:32:40] teams that actually develop and deliver global [inaudible 00:32:43], which are phenomenal to see. And you do, and I do [inaudible 00:32:47] agencies and what they get up to because you never know, there’s that one day that will come by and go, “Do you know what? We’ve got to invest again. We’ve got to bring in a bigger agency to give us that, I suppose, that creative drive and implementation to really drive the product.” So that’s the good side of an agency. 

Nathan Anibaba: 

Really interesting. And my final question, Richard, what’s the single biggest thing that you have yet to achieve that you’d like to achieve in your career? 

Richard Quelch: 

What is the single thing that I want to achieve? I’ll say in present day that I would love to see Origin and Lifestyle as the go-to packaging companies, and I’m not going to be greedy here, but on a European level. And we are… I’d say we’re halfway there with Origin. We’ve done some really good work. But I would say the single thing to achieve is to be that go-to two packaging brands who can support you with from concept through to completion or from sketch to shelf, give that full driven service, 360 service. And that is why my burning desire, my drive, and my enthusiasm waking up in the morning is, “How can we get Origin and Lifestyle there?” But not just get there quickly and cut corners, but show the quality and the impressive knowledge and expertise that we have here as packaging experts and get that out, get that message out. And hopefully we may have an interview, Nathan, in four years, five years’ time, and we’re there. 

Nathan Anibaba: 

Definitely. 

Richard Quelch: 

We’re there. And do you know what? I have no doubt that we will be. And I guess I create that confidence from such a good back end of Origin because they’ve got such a robust model and some fantastic employees that are really going to help us get to that level. And [inaudible 00:34:44] I think marketing bias is the most important function of the business. Of course, I’m going to say that. But we’re just the guys who will take the idea, we’ll bring it to life, we’ll make sales for them. And they’re, mentally, they’re the guys with the idea of the packaging. So that’s what I want is Origin and Lifestyle to be the go-to packaging company. 

Nathan Anibaba: 

There is no business without marketing, definitely. Richard, it’s been absolutely fascinating speaking to you, and we’ll get you back on the show in four years’ time. Richard Quelch, thank you for being on ClientSide. 

Richard Quelch: 

Thank you. 

Nathan Anibaba: 

If you’d like to share any comments on this episode or any episode of ClientSide, then find us online at fox.agency. If you’d like to appear as a guest on the show, please email milly@fox.agency. The people that make this show possible are Milly Bell and Natasha Rosic, our booker/researcher, David Clare is our head of content, Ben Fox is our executive producer. I’m Nathan Anibaba. You’ve been listening to ClientSide from Fox Agency. 

Nathan Anibaba: 

Join us next time on ClientSide, brought to you by Fox Agency.